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 Post subject: Today, no Spartan dies
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 12:03 am 
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Gather round, children,

I'm going to reprint large parts of the conversation I just had with an unnamed panda who expressed some frustration with conditions at the current venue. I do this to remind you what my poopy head version of things is, and invite commentary--last port before the Don Ha bridge, so stop reading if you don't wanna go deep into the jungle:

I understand the frustration. But we're winning hearts and minds, and teaching people how to play. You know what's funny? I just met the guys we played with yesterday. And they already worship us.

What I was told when I got there was that THEY were tired of playing against scrubs. They want to beat us. That's motivation we can work with, right?

They are already less bitchy and more w accepting of our authority than they were 2 days ago.

Basically, in the absence of Tbone, I'm ran the show up there, with your help, of course.

They will hate is a little, but love us a lot. We will be welcomed back and sponsored if security ever becomes a problem. We are winning!

Look back to your days as a rookie. It takes time to develop players. You have to have the patience to do it. I still have that patience.

Soon we will introduce them to the concept of BBG. Just one game called down a day. Watch and learn, new guys. And won't they feel proud when they are invited to play in one?

There is a method to my madness. Without new blood, the league dies. We can work with these guys, turn them into better players than they are. That IS something actually. I had a hand in training about 3 generations of players when I was Chief, including (all of) you. We've got to remember to pay it forward until something else comes on line. Do you really think Deerfield will be any better?

We're all sad we lost the Argosy. Gets me kind of choked up to think about how much y'all loved that place. But I've always had bigger ideas. I want this to be a LEAGUE. It can't just stop with us pros. At this stage of my career, it's a legacy thing.

Because of the vision that arose out of the quirky and particular circumstances of Argosy AWVP, we flat out changed the game in this town. And changed it for the better. That's more impact that I've had in the world by writing a book, and more than I am likely to ever have in any other pursuit.

Do I get frustrated? Hell yeah. I think my level of frustration at Riata is open and obvious. But think of this as a sports franchise. The vets being defeated, for the first time ever. Do you think I liked that? Still stings. But it was good for the league. And that's what's important.

Where will the new recruits who want to beat somebody come from if not the Riata? I'm open to suggestions. But they have to come from somewhere....

You see, I've been doing this for a while, from a leadership position, which means I've been thinking about the big picture so others don't have to.

But my career is winding up. So now the rest of you need to figure out how you want to run the chocolate factory when you're my age. Does that make sense?

Even if a new venue pops up, I intend to play at more than one place, in an effort to represent, and fly the AWVP flag far and wide.

That's probably enough for now. Strength and honor.

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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 10:32 am 
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i assume maybe you are referring to the comment from jared?

i thought it was fine. i like integrating more new folks. and for added bonus, i like it when they come with a bit of lip too. makes life enjoyable, i feel.

rest some games. maybe stop the winner stays thing? anyway we can work that in? its early....that is a process we can implement to improve many things. what it will need is a group of pandas willing to sit and game here and there....

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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 11:17 pm 
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I will leave the lamenting panda unnamed. Let's just say it's a common frustration.

But I expect you will find the same problem, or worse, anywhere you go...
Over the course of many years we've found maybe half a dozen pools that have organized game. Not one of them has been able to give us a run for our money--except Riata. Maybe another half a dozen pools out there with playable nets but no players, and that leaves us too exposed.

Argosy was unique--small venue, developed very slowly (remember, I got there in 1992, or thereabouts!), used to have enough resident players until about 2005, and with one guy in charge the whole time. You just don't see that every day...

Riata is far better than it has been. If someone wants to get something started more south, by all means, do so. Julio has some interest--talking about putting in poles and net at his place. Help him out. Because maybe it could be set up with a playable net that meets our specs. Alternatively or in concert, you want to start some things up at Deerfield, do it. There are plenty of southside pandas now. And, for the moment, I work south, so I would be available for weekday ball. Doubt I would be for Riata right now--I'd be on the road for something like an hour to get there from work.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. What we have now is good. The purpose of my recent posts is to encourage those who wish to do something different in their efforts to find something better. I just haven't seen it yet. Such things take work, patience, effort, and, as the Ronins and our own unfortunate La Mirage experience will tell you, sometimes our best intentions meet with massive resistance and don't pay off. All I'm saying is that, at this stage in my career, I've probably opened all the doors for you I can. Your turn now...

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Over the past 15 years, I've seen good summers and bad at Riata. People move in, people move out.
As far as winner staying in, I've seen a couple of options at other places.
    Winners site out after winning 3 games, then play winner of fourth game. If it's a strong team, even that will annoy the locals after a while if they only skip every 4th game all day.
    Winners get out after three, and new teams are formed. Two people act as captain and choose teams.
    If there are actually four full teams, the first two play, the next two play, then the winners of those two games play. Somebody has to keep track of it though, and I don't think this will happen very often. Maybe July 4th weekend.

I'll play south if a venue gets going. I might not be able to go to Riata on weekdays this year either.

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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 8:45 am 
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Riata def has ups and downs cuz of the population size and migratory patterns of apt dwellers...I guarantee 05-08 had a larger number of good players compared to the Obstacle...Issue is 6s dilutes touches for the better players, and some of yall really think yall are better than you are...

Hardly anyone has stepped of their game or changed any in years...Creepy is still going to not know score and hit into net on serve or out, Chief aka "most PG title wins" is going to go over on 2 or to Mikey every play, and forget teaching that old dog back passing, Ford is going to expect every ball, T2 is going to soccer the ball all over the place, and dont even get me started on Jess...Since his MVP year has there ever been a more precipitous free fall since Shawn Rainman Kemp from greatness to poop so quickly...Westcott and Pat really are the only two good players that have gotten better over the last few years, and Mikey is still Mikey...

Since the evolution of passing backwards, the flexbone (which I hate, but admit has its merit at times, the fake swing while other guy is actual hitter, and Unstoppable Play of Edub following me as PG to big hitter...Well, since there hasnt been any innovation since all that, and the death of the Obstacle we really havent advanced the game one iota last few seasons, except by adding a few new players w/ some skill...

I converted to sand because our games became the same shit show every time out...Yes, some good BBGs, but overall like watching & living reruns of some TBS show that had its run a decade or more before...

Yall want to fix things? Have more fun, let non hitters learn to hit...Dont play 2 man games w/ 6 people, and have more fun...I hate buoy games as much or more than anyone, but a few are going to be necessary w/o complaint while the talent pool increases and improves...

Thats my 2 pesos...See yall this wknd...


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:12 am 
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You're banned again. Fuck off and go play sand ball :kiss:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:41 am 
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I disagree with the decision of the moderator. If the Lip has a problem with the Mobile Infantry/Panda Corps, he should have permission to speak freely. Rank is not an issue here!

Any organization that does not tolerate dissent becomes authoritarian. Hell, everyone thinks I'm a poopy head.

So, the Lip put up another screed against what we do. Ain't the first time, and shouldn't have to be the last. Is his trolling negativity valuable? To an extent, yes. Every team we've gone out to beat thought they were unbeatable. We don't want to be our opponents. The shame seems to stick to them, like a scarlet letter, and often they don't learn to survive and adapt. I don't see us as those guys.l However, I myself have said we're beatable right now due to low turnout and poor morale. At my advanced age, I'm grabbing the flag and charging the battlements, alone, if necessary, to try to keep the "dream" alive.

Rather than ban the Lip, allow him to respond as I unpack what's going on in his post...

The Lip has never liked us Arrrgosy players much. And that's fine. He's been given many, many opportunities to beat us with his "superior" game and players. He lost. Every time. At one point some years ago I confronted him on the court, and explained the facts of life to him: "We can just keep hammering you and yours again, and again, and again. I certainly have the stomach for slaughtering my opponents. Or, our crews can join forces, and learn how to play together."

He chose to join. Good. Didn't stop bitching. That's fine. Because the league was better for it.

Once the precious Riata resort community was exposed to our presence on a regular basis, things started to change, a little...

The Super Team that plays all day was not my concept--it's what I've seen everywhere else I've showed up, including Riata. So... I bring my best, knock them out of the box, and then offer them an olive branch--we can either mix the teams up, or your losing super team can wait in line while we beat on all the children with water wings who want to play, because, by your own rules, we run your court now.

Are you getting it? Are my ideas making sense now? Because I've got no problem continuing to administer the lesson, with the help of a few Pandas, who kill everything they see, until you see reason, or quit.

Let's see, what other ideas did Argosy come up with? Dry people who are good should play? Women who are good should play? Take all comers, at any time they show up? Lippy was pretty bad at that. I remember when his Riata crew showed up, unannounced and uninvited, mind you (etiquitte, sir), late in the day, as all the Vets were packing it in, so I left the honor of defending the pool against a more experienced team to my younglings at the time: Jess, T2, OJ, Wescott. I didn't even watch the game, I just crossed my fingers and hoped that they would remember their training.

Guess what happened? These second generation boys became men that day, tested in battle against a more experienced team, who they beat. They told great tales at the Headquarters and earned their ale that day.

Who does the Riata recruit? When Argosy was alive, Lip, where would "your" players rather play? I got bad news for you. I won't name names, but...

Why am I having to run the Riata now and do what you've said I've never been doing--recruit and improve players? That's what I've done for years. And, now that the Argosy is gone, I will feed on the new blood of the Riata. And, thus far, they love me for my efforts.

If sand is your primary game, I can respect that. I will even concede that it is a "purer" game than what we play. However, after beating the best sanders in the city, by your own admission, Lippy, year after year, I'd prefer that they shut their pie holes about how their game and ability is superior. If that were true, us water boys should fall, easily.

Sometimes in the past they've liked to lounge around the Riata pool snarking. When asked if they wanted to play, no. Get to fighting or get away, I say. I don't sit around the sand courts disrespecting the game that sanders play, now do I?

Acknowledgment of separate spheres and different skills would be appreciated. I'm not holding my breath. Even though I'm quite amused with the physics behind sand sets, where you can catch that ball at your belly, lift it up, but it never, ever. really touches your hands in any way that could be construed as a carry...

Well, OK, when in Rome. But wait, you're in water land right now. You should play by our rules. No? OK, we'll humor the "superior" athletes, because we're going to win, no matter what you do.

What happens when sand is poured into water? It sinks to the bottom, every time. Care to dispute that? Because we're looking at a few years of evidence now...

When I get to Valhalla, I guess I'll find out. But, does "Chief on 2," rather than "2 to Chief" work? How often? I don't remember making a habit of doing it when I'm nose to net and overmatched. Do sanders never mix things up? Why or why not?

Because I remember watching an Olympic qualifying game where the American point guard was setting his 6'6" hitter high and tight on the net against the 6'11" Swiss blocker. Over and over again. Stuffed. You know what commentator Karch said? "That ain't working. Low and quick. Sizzle his pits." Let the big guy commit and hit a bit off the net on the outside of his arms.

Same thing goes on the the water, pal. Ford beat me for almost a straight year because I was facing the net, tight, and he'd just lob one over short on top of my head. I didn't understand where to go, except back over, which got me killed on the mismatch comeback set. I eventually figured it out. You know what the answer was? For $19.95 you can buy my instructional video...

I must say, given he's injured, I understand the Lip's bitterness. 5 knee surgeries is no way to go through life, son. Have you asked your doctor whether playing in sand or water is going to be better on your knee? I'm thinking I know the answer to that, but I will respect your choice.

As you well know, I myself was injured through a whole summer--right after I moved out of Argosy. And it made me sad, to the point where I didn't want to show up. What's the point? Watching someone else do what I think I could do better, if only I could play???

Stinkin thinkin. Ford set me straight on that. "C'mon, Chief, we need you out there." Man, was I being negative and selfish. I'm part of a TEAM and I need to be out to support that team, even if I can't play. Wescott called me the best "ball bitch" ever.

The Lip was hard on us, I will be hard on him. I'm really old, but Lippy ain't no spring chicken. Do you think anyone is really going to trust you again when it comes to a tournament with all those knee surgeries under your belt? You're going to end up playing off the bench, and probably not with the top tier players anymore, who are busy whistling in the dark that what happened to you won't happen to them. Once it gets in the public mind that you are done, doesn't exactly matter what you do. I know my career is coming to an end, do you?

Water is easier on the knees. I expect you might be back before you want to be.

And this point I wish to emphasize. Plenty of people have criticized me personally, and the Corps (you know who you are), and been welcomed back with open arms, if they come to play...

I'm under the delusion that I'm trying to do something that goes beyond what I'm going as a player in any given game. I've heard from the lips of the Lip that he was chief once for a year, and gave up. Why is that?

There are serious questions on the line here about the future of this league and what people think about it...

Dear moderator, unzip the Lip, and let him respond.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:44 pm 
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Well, thats a mouthful...Thats what she said...

There was much truth, and also much revisionist history in that lengthy diatribe...

First and foremost if I didnt like water vball I wouldnt put up w/ many of the usual frustrations that go along w/ it continually and dont ever change in and out of the court for the years I have been playing since 1997...

Next I will address my callouts that caused Creepy "Gastapo 1984 Lenin Book Burner Mr Censorship might as well be a doorman cuz banning me is only power he has" Dan to revoke my speaking/ranting rights for 2nd time over the history of this chat site...Was there anything in there that wasnt true?!?Is that why it stung so bad?Did you cry into your pillow?

My purpose of response was to rally the troops exatly as it has done along w/ what Chief pointed out as frustration of being on DL, BUT I wanted some fire out of the crew, too...Since the death of the Obstacle there has definitley been a dearth of enthusiasm which I get, but not end of world...Also, I have never minded being a unified target, esp if it improves things...I am strong enough...Always have been...

A few historical and opinion corrections: I showed up to Obstacle by myself years ago when the tree and stinky dead rodents were still on top of court...I didnt bring the Riata crew...In fact, I played there a year or two before Ford & Lawnmower showed up...Also, have never disliked Argosy players or playing there...I have donated orbs, food, dinero to site, taken up much of the vanacular, and I hang out w/ Ford and Jess outside of water confines, and have played hoops w/ many, too...Do I wholly disagree w/ Creepy's conspiracy theories?!?Unequivocally yes...Do I like to challenge thoughts and play devil's advocate? Without a doubt in all aspects of my life...

My reply was not a sand vs water focus either...I have been part of plenty of super teams that have held the court all day...Hell, I will skip many games if it keeps me off the buoy and or scrubs team...And have been told by many I take it way too seriously once I enter the water over the years...

The knees part def all accurate...I will be stuck playing doubles tennis, golf, and water vball only probably way sooner than I want to admit which is why I am glad that I do enjoy water still...

I did have Chief like duties back when I lived at La Mirage in 2000, and even before that at the Timbers in Huntsville at a court built by same people and design as obstacle...Riata is impossible to truly run well because there are just too many other factors like size of pool, late starts, security, 6s vs 4s, kids, music battles, buoy ratio, and mainly cuz I got sand addiction a few summers ago...With all that said it is all we have, so embrace it, and have fun like I said...

Oh, and Creepy remember I do have real power to keep you out of Riata, but I dont get offended like a prissy girl by words, esp actual non conspiracy truth, so enjoy playing here whether u zip the lip or not cuz I am not a LITTLE BITCH...Now, that is me trying to enflame you cuz one thing I cant stand is not being heard...

Well I digress, and feel better...I could go line by line below, but I would like to get to pool by game time...

Toodles Pandas...See ya in the H2O...


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:18 pm 
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The Lip wrote:
Next I will address my callouts that caused Creepy "Gastapo 1984 Lenin Book Burner Mr Censorship might as well be a doorman cuz banning me is only power he has" Dan to revoke my speaking/ranting rights for 2nd time over the history of this chat site...Was there anything in there that wasnt true?!?Is that why it stung so bad?Did you cry into your pillow?


Yeah pretty much everything you say is untrue.

The Lip wrote:
Creepy is still going to not know score and hit into net on serve or out, Chief aka "most PG title wins" is going to go over on 2 or to Mikey every play, and forget teaching that old dog back passing, Ford is going to expect every ball, T2 is going to soccer the ball all over the place, and dont even get me started on Jess...Since his MVP year has there ever been a more precipitous free fall since Shawn Rainman Kemp from greatness to poop so quickly...


All untrue.

My problem with you Lip is that what you are doing is harassment. That's why your freedom of speech is taken away. We're trying to have fun here. You hardly play ball and then you criticize us over and over with things that aren't true.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:47 pm 
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The Lip has been the Lip forever. His style grated on me at first, to be sure. Just wind. The proof is in the pooling...

His history is just a bit off. While it is true and very worth noting that the Lip has contributed lots of volleyballs and pizza to the Argosy, that was after his initial onslaughts. And the sundown assault on our camp did indeed happen. If memory serves, they all came at once--TJ, Fish, the black guy who's name I can't remember--now tell me that didn't happen without LJ orchestrating it. Then again, maybe it was a Fish thing? I'll have to confirm with the boys that played, and defeated, that team. Fish went through a similar arc of anger, denial, acceptance.

Water under bridge. Lippy has been part of this organization for some time now. He is an experienced player, who I don't discount on the court, no matter what garbage may come out of his mouth. We are stronger with him than without him. But he's been yacking from the sidelines for a while now. The time will come when people say, put up or zip up. You're only as good as your last play or last game in this league, and when you play less and less...

That being said, I think Lip's post did just what it was supposed to do--fired you guys up. Y'all set something up where I played south today, and everyone was talking about the post.

Soo, the negativity had an effect. Prove the Lip wrong--show him we are not living in the past. That's a positive, right?

I grew up on the beach, but was never allowed to play sand ball (too many players from high school and college teams, too many "ups," not enough skill on my part). Which probably made me the fascist I am today. I like sand ball, but it's too sandy, too hot, and you can't drink very much when you're playing. Also, lots of rules. I'd argue it's far more predictable than what happens in water. Where's the fun in that? But, to each his own. I respect sand players. Frankly, they have to work harder than we do to do what they do. It's unfortunate they don't respect what we do.

And while I agree that there is no real way to "run" the Riata, I've been doing a pretty good job of it the past few weeks: "Listen to the guy with the Roman tattoo--he seems to know what he's doing." That from Riata residents??! Like I said, there's a first time for everything. I feel quite a bit of trepidation running the show up there as best I can when I don't live there, but it's for the good, and I try to tread lightly. Where are the long time waterball residents who should be out there to give us mercenaries the "go" code and make sure things run smoothly with security? Dunno. I need backup, in more ways than one.

I'll be headed north to the Hot Gates Sunday, and will get the number of the guy Tim who fields a team of 6 every weekend. Apparently he will be the new "go code" contact.

Agreed, Riata is an imperfect venue. But I'm unwilling to give up on it. We've picked up quite a few players from their ranks of current/former residents: Big Shot Rob, Kent, Fish, Riata Will, TJ, Scott, Ford (who I believe as Argosy before he was Riata), Dub, Jared, who am I leaving out? Oh yeah, the Lip! That's a pretty long and strong list of players.

The place has a huge potential talent pool, and therefore should not be ignored. But if the new blood is going to buy what I'm selling, there will need to be some times that Panda Corps shows up, in force, to show them what we can do, and convince recruits to be a part of it.

The old/new Deerfield venue is not bad (I've played there before back in the day)--easier to run/take over because it's smaller, more accessible to the growing number of south side Pandas, Argosy-like dimensions, but it needs some fixin. The net and poles, primarily. Once that's done, nice nice place to play--no wind, no blinding sun. Few children/drunk frat boys n' girls with water wings. Better to have more than one court option.

But, from what I've heard, in a couple of months, we won't know anyone there. So start getting some digits and winning hearts and minds, south siders. Do not overstep your bounds. I do not want any more Mirages...

Also, the next big rook is unlikely to come from there, although I could be wrong. There were a couple of one-over guys out there who might develop. What's more likely is that Deerfield venue fulfills the Lip's prophecy--we honor ourselves, and the league withers and dies. I intend to split my infinitives, and play both places--maybe Deerfield weekdays and Saturday, Riata Sunday.

Now, the rest. Conspiracy is spelled with a "C." Is there a "C" in AWVP? I didn't think so. Creeps, not sure why you let LJ bait you into such discussions, and LJ, stop baiting Creepy. There is an "A" in AWVP, which, in this instance, stands for "apolitical." Minus the internal politics of watervolleyball itself. Anybody who wants to go all flametastic about things that don't involve the game, feel free to exchange email addresses, and have at it, off site. Just a suggestion.

Given the paranoid style of Riata politics, I'm very much against what you said about banning Creepy from Riata ball, LJ. TJ has a story where he was banned for 3 years for cussing up there, and he didn't even do it. And I was told he'd show up to plead his case from time to time, but they stuck to it.

Remember guys, the ongoing Lip-Creepy dispute is virtual, and should stay that way. However, I will also point out that the Lip is well within his rights, as a resident of the venue, to choose who he associates with and who he decides will be allowed to come through the gates of his fine resort community. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be a dick move to ban someone in retaliation for some posts.

I never banned anyone from Argosy, although I was awfully tempted on more than one occasion. Batman and Deto were told that their behavior had to change, or they would no longer be welcome, but the choice was theirs. They chose poorly...

I've got an idea: "Fuck it, dudes, let's play ball." If you sift through the Lipshit, that's what he's really getting at.

It's summer, and I need every able body on the line. So let's stop bickering and get to it!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:55 am 
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Very good, thought out, and thorough reply...I agree w/ 99% of all that...My pt to Creepy was I would not ban him because I can take spirited debate and criticism...I was throwing it out there that I could, but unlike him, dont use my limited power just for being on receiving end of truths...

I cant play for at least another month, so it really all doesnt matter anyway...Hopefully, be back to being the real point guard of all time by July...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:38 am 
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i like playing water volleyball. where do i go this weekend to do this?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:30 pm 
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Did someone say ball? Plus, I think Attonery Scott is hott. :towlie:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:34 pm 
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Just because you don't see me playing, doesn't mean i'm not playing... like in 15 minutes... secert venue. :wink: markides curious?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:36 pm 
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what you fools need is regulation and organization. I meeting time, set amount of games and pre-determined teams... so you get in get out and not cause any problems.. blitzkrieg. if anyone is interested i believe i might be able to make this happen.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:44 pm 
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proposed teams

I

markside
chef
dan
pat
monkey

II

the host
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scott
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wild boy t2

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:44 pm 
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2ish?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:10 pm 
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college boy wrote:
i like playing water volleyball. where do i go this weekend to do this?


Welcome back college boy.

While you were away we turned into
Arguing
Water
Volleyball
People*

*except for chief (he's an alien) :alienbeam:

This is basically because of the Lip (who is actually an AP (Arguing People) because he never plays water sports anyhow but we have to listen to him bitch at how much we suck even though he's not ever at the pool to witness our play).

And our new venue has Chief all worked up.

:DancingChief: :axe: :dancing: :scratchinghead: :scared:

But we do need to establish where we are going to play on what days now that we are playing at multiple venues and post it on the website. I'm tired of all this texting which leaves people out and drains my cell phone minutes. Much better to use the website.

I'll say that tentative plans for this weekend are as follows:
Saturday: Deerfield
Sunday: Riata

If anything changes, please post on website. :cowbell:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:03 pm 
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Monte Vista? :axe:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:33 am 
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Of course I'm going to say this, but I don't see what's been going on with recent posts as arguing at all...

It's more like we're having a rather spirited discussion about where this league is gonna go. It's called a "discussion forum" for a reason, right?

I agree with Creeps that the website should remain a viable tool, both for extended ramblings and for trying to set up game. But texting is a fact of life, inefficient as it may be, because it is immediate, although I often find myself leaving some peeps out of the loop or assuming others will contact them. Why not use both?

I'll also say that I am very pleased and proud that the southside pandas who rediscovered Deerfield chose not to play there today when they didn't have resident backing. And then came up to Riata. That's why we maintain more than one venue. Starting to see the method in my madness now?

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